The Wapati has referred back to a post and looks beyond the data — that marrying a woman of fervent faith and having a bunch of kids leads to a happy marriage.

If there is one thing this article suggests, is that we can select ourselves for marital happiness. While a quiverfull may indeed happen by accident in this day and age (low probability in our anti-natalist/contraceptive / abortifacient culture), a zealous faith doesn’t. We can choose to set ourselves up for success. We can select ourselves into the population most likely to enjoy marital happiness, not because we sought happiness for happiness’ sake, but because we loved God and He blessed us in response.

Now, I don’t believe in the logic behind Humanis Vitae . I do consider that the Pope was correct that the free use of contraception would lead to a disconnect between sex and pregnancy, and a loosening of the moral strictures. It is very hard to have a gender/raunch culture when most women have three kids by the time they are 26 — and if you allow women free reign on their desires to capture a high status man there is a fairly reasonable chance that this will happen. And I think Spengler is right — in a crisis of faith people stop wanting babies.

People have always regulated fertility. You can encourage non procreative sex. You can allow free promiscuity, and accept that a considerable number of women will get infected with chlamydia (and develop infertility) or HPV (and a number will develop cervical cancer, and die early). You can tell women that controlling their hunger is sexist and encourage obesity, which will increase the risk of polycystic ovarian syndrome. And you can actively encourage homosexuality — It takes time and effort for gay men and women to go against their desires and breed.

But that way lies unhappiness… the happiest women in the US are ironically, the most traditional:

This insight is embedded in a larger report whose overall purpose is to find out the factors that lead to happy and successful married families — particularly using data from “next generation marriages,” among those currently 18 to 46 years old.

Children are known to stress marital happiness, on average, but what helps some couples resist the stress and build enduring and happy married families?

Among the report’s findings, some seem obvious: Married parents do better if they spend time with each other, spend time with their children, are generous in helping out one another and have a satisfying sex life.

But pro-child attitudes are also very important. Agreeing that raising children is “one of life’s greatest joys” doubles the likelihood that these younger married women report being very happily married.

“We found that pro-natalistic attitude is one of the top five predictors of marital happiness” for both wives and for husbands, the authors state.

Religious commitment also helps to build a happy marriage for women. Here, actions speak even louder than words. Only when husbands and wives both attend church regularly are wives more likely to be very happily married.

But in the church we are not as much interested in stopping people having kids as in the state of our souls. And we are aware that people burn with desire for each other. We are aware that the sexual drive needs to be disciplined and channeled. And the term we use around this is chastity. Chastity is in part the commandment not to commit adultery — in part the extension not to look with desire at another person, and in part not coveting. Not desiring that which is not yours.

In marriage, you belong to another person. Deal with it. You have given your body to your spouse. In the words of the old service with my body I do worship. Sex, within this, is chaste. Looking around and pining about the person you do not have — or the lover you spurned — is not chaste.

Now, this has led to considerable problems. Firstly, our society is fairly well sexualized, as I found out when trying to buy feminine but modest clothes (with my daughter) for my six year old grand daughter. The number of times we used words like “Skanky” to describe what we were seeing… and there are considerable struggles for our sisters who are trying to stick with the rules. And a commentator asked why this caused anger.

“Two wrongs do not make a right. Chastity allows for discernment of character.”  I’ve made this argument on several manosphere or peripheral blogs, and every time I get insulted/flamed/kicked off for saying that, get accused of being one of those tradcon females, etc etc. Any idea why that might be happening, and why such a violent reaction to it? I have a few of my own ideas, just wondering if you had any input.

One comment notes that the behaviour within the church is less than chaste.

Well, a lot of tradcon women have…less than chaste pasts; “born again virgins” with high partners counts seeking good Christian men to marry. For example, met a woman in church who outright admitted to converting to Christianity solely as a means to meet marriage-minded Christian men. She didn’t care about Jesus, or genuinely seek repentance for her past indiscretions – it was all just a scheme to meet guys. Understandably, a lot of men on the blogosphere feel like women use Christianity [and it's tradcon values] solely as a form of deception…… I’ve been virgin shamed by devout Christian women, I was once even told no-man would want to date a girl who waits until marriage.

Now, most men are angry here. There are a number of men who struggle here. Including me: It was hard enough being chaste when single (and I failed: my daughter was born when I was 24 and after that relationship ended I married the mother of my boys when I was 28). It is harder now.  Being told my women that we all need to be chaste feels like salt is being rubbed into a wound (even if they are right).

Especially when they do not look at their own behaviour. We can be unchaste visually,,, yes,  But also in what we read, who we listen to, and the shows we see. There is as much encouragement of unchastity on Glee as in Cosmopolitan. Or Playboy. Rule 34 applies: Porn is everywhere.

And this is why chastity needs two things: Iron and modesty.

Men respond to accountability and challenge. As the Proverb says, Iron sharpens Iron. Men are hard, challenging to each other… and even the pagans know that indulging in lust saps your energy and productivity. Women — well I’m not sure

Modesty for women is… a challenge. I’m not going to say this myself, but quote a girl…

I’m passionate about modesty. I dress modestly and I encourage other women to do the same. Modest doesn’t have to be frumpy or unattractive, and it is in keeping with protecting the dignity of women and behaving charitably to our Christian brothers.

But sometimes modesty sucks.

Sometimes, — not very often, but occasionally — I’d just rather be the hot chick in the miniskirt and the plunging neckline that every man is drooling over. I admit it. Attention whores are definitely on to something because they definitely get lots of attention. And most of that attention is male, which is the most valuable kind for a woman to receive.

Now… i want to annoy me and  have your IP address blocked and be annoyed… Spam me. If you really want to annoy me, dress in the plunging neckline and miniskirt and talk about chastity. Please be charitable. I’m single, and I’m not dead. I am fairly good at disciplining my eyes (it is a survival trait in this world of sexual harassment rules) but the incongruity — annoys.

It is the Ann Coulter syndrome. She uses her miniskirts as a weapon — you instinctively think she is approachable and then you get turned into mincemeat by her tongue. while you are staring at her legs.  Ladies, there is a reason she is single and it is not her faith, which I have no doubt is more fervent than mine. It is living with that incongruity is difficult –  if she does not annoy you by saying precisely what she thinks in as challenging a manner possible she will annoy you by distracting you from the fun of arguing back.

Guys, Ann is not like most women — and we have to be a little gentle with correcting them… but girls, if you go into the manosphere, be aware that everyone gets challenged, no one’s opinion is accepted as authoritative  and your assumptions will be harshly challenged. This is how men interact. Do not expect us to be nice and feminine. Demand instead, that we are good.