I want to start this with a comment I made just before I went to bed last hight. I’d been asked if people who are divorced could remarry by Will S. I replied.

I really don’t know how to apply the relevant part of the confession — which is deliberately and publically given the current secrecy around divorce. In general, both are wrong in part (but then, we all are wrong in part).

I agree the wronged spouse for adultery. By extension, if abandoned. The guilty spouse? Well, God is merciful, and this is one of the reasons I am glad I am not an elder.

The problem is that blogging is teaching. Blogs are read. i’ve been looking at the comments from yesterday here and it is fairly clear that we derailed onto the issue of if divorce is even permissible. And in doing this, we caused offence.

And in this, we need to take care.

James 3:1-12

1Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2For all of us make many mistakes. Anyone who makes no mistakes in speaking is perfect, able to keep the whole body in check with a bridle. 3If we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we guide their whole bodies. 4Or look at ships: though they are so large that it takes strong winds to drive them, yet they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great exploits.

How great a forest is set ablaze by a small fire! 6And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is placed among our members as a world of iniquity; it stains the whole body, sets on fire the cycle of nature, and is itself set on fire by hell. 7For every species of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by the human species, 8but no one can tame the tongue — a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse those who are made in the likeness of God. 10From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this ought not to be so. 11Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and brackish water. >12Can a fig tree, my brothers and sisters, yield olives, or a grapevine figs? No more can salt water yield fresh

via Daily Lectionary Readings — Devotions and Readings — Mission and Ministry — GAMC.

The biggest offenders here, as far as I can see, are three groups. The first is the consciously righteous. these people beleive that their shite smells sweet, that they have never been in sin, and they look down their nose at us proles, who return to snark, to wine, to gambling, to women or (horrors) do not recycle properly. We break their rules. They are the modern Pharisees.   Well, their teaching can cause Godly repentance, but usually causes hurt, rejection, and closes a person from mercy.

The second is the reformed magisterium. Among Catholics, the centralised teaching authority of the church is seen as infallible. One must follow this. The Catholic catechism is incredibly detailed: where the Hedelberg will have a sentence, they will have five paragraphs covering every case they can think of. This leads to legalistic thinking, and at times the Law can be an ass.  Now, there are theologians who are reformed who have made their career in writing glosses on Calvin, on the Westminster Confession, who rebuild a law, precept by precept. But we cannot keep these rules. We live in the mud, not in the law courts, and the disconnect between the teaching and real life allows us to rationalise our excuses.

The third is misanthropy. In this world this seems to be mainly middle aged and older men. No one loves them. They have reached their level, and there are no new goals. Instead of reaching out and teaching their trade to the next generation (If I do not have a replacement for me before I leave my job, I’m not a good tutor) the become bitter, judgmental, and snarky. That’s me on a bad day.

We need to be careful in our commenting. We can cause hurt. We need to pray more than we write or comment.

I am dealing with some of the more difficult arguments possible over at Traditional Catholicism. Alte, who is catholic, argues that there should never be a divorce.

But divorce? I don’t even counsel divorce for women whose husbands have beaten them or raped them. You guys know that. No divorce. Ever. God hates divorce. If you really can’t stand it, and you have to leave their physical presence to stay sane or protect yourself or your children from harm or their ongoing sin, then I can feel compassion for that. But divorce? No way. To even bring that to the table in such a discussion is atrocious, and completely against my religion.

Marriages aren’t something you can just toss out when they no longer suit you, or your spouse disappoints or betrays you. They are until death. That is the entire point of marriage, as it is meaningless if you can just walk away from it. It only means something if it’s permanent.

This is where I part company with my Protestant friends. Where do you draw the line? You draw the line at “I do”, that’s where. If you start drawing lines anywhere else, chaos ensues.

Well. the Catholics have a point. Not many in the reformed movement know what the teaching on divorce is. The more literate may be aware that it is some confessions of faith… as this blogger nots…

What are the divorceable offenses? Sutton lists two broad categories. The first group includes sins against God including idolatry, blasphemy, witchcraft, divination, and spiritism.

The second group consists of sins against the spouse. This group is then divided into two subgroups: the first subgroup includes all sexual sins, and second is a subgroup he calls “murder.” Murder includes physical abuse and desertion (physical and sexual), infant sacrifice, and failure to provide economically. As you can see, the list of divorceable offenses includes far more than adultery.

via MARRIAGE, DIVORCE, AND REMARRIAGE — A COVENANTAL MODEL.

However, one of the good rules is to look at the original Text. The Classic formulation of reformed (or Presbyterian Faith) is the Westminster confession. It states in Chapter 24

It is lawful for all sorts of people to marry who are able with judgment to give their consent. Yet it is the duty of Christians to marry only in the Lord. And, therefore, such as profess the true reformed religion should not marry with infidels, Papists, or other idolaters: neither should such as are godly be unequally yoked, by marrying with such as are notoriously wicked in their life, or maintain damnable heresies.

.

Adultery or fornication, committed after a contract, being detected before marriage, giveth just occasion to the innocent party to dissolve that contract. In the case of adultery after marriage, it is lawful for the innocent party to sue out a divorce, and after the divorce to marry another, as if the offending party were dead.

 

Although the corruption of man be such as is apt to study arguments, unduly to put asunder those whom God hath joined together in marriage; yet nothing but adultery, or such willful desertion as can no way be remedied by the Church or civil magistrate, is cause sufficient of dissolving the bond of marriage; wherein a public and orderly course of proceeding is to be observed; and the persons concerned in it, not left to their own wills and discretion in their own case

The reformers were imperfect and worked within the knowledge of society that they knew. This included knowledge of periods of casual divorce (they were educated, which means they knew their Pultarch and Catiluus). What they would not have comprehended is the current fashion of seeing divorce as part of spiritual growth.

We should not remain in a marriage for fear of hurting our partner or of disappointing the other important people in our lives, or for the comfort of remaining in a safe haven. And yet, so many of us choose to stunt our growth by remaining in a marriage whose life has terminated than to move on to new spiritual paths for fear of the unknown. I truly believe that in the end we not only hurt ourselves, but those very people we were trying to spare as well.

(I have just quoted from a neopagan pseudotherapeutic site, but it gave a good example).

What is interesting is that the reformers and the Catholic divines agree on the reasons for licit separation.

• Infidelity (and sexual impurity)
• Apostasy
• Abandonment, or cruel and licentious behaviour.

And that is about it. Where Alte is correct is that there is a slope if you allow any grounds. But she can’t live in a fantasy world where there are no grounds for divorce. It is a wish to be back in the garden — when things were perfect, and we became one flesh.

Divorce was given for the hardness of our hearts, because this world is imperfect, and to minimse the pain and suffering of the abused and oppressed. It is a lesser evil.

The word says that God hates divorce. As a divorced person with intimate knowledge of the divorce court, I hate divorce. I have dealt with too many people who thinking of ending their life in the days and weeks after their spouse has left them: I have seen the ligature marks around their necks, and listened to their pain.

From Divergence in Contributing Factors for Suicide Among Men and Women in Kentucky: Recommendations to Raise Public Awareness

I have seen the cost. In my life, in my family, in my friends and in the people I help at work. But this world is fallen, and we need some rules around this. The reformers did summarize scripture reasonably well. We need to teach this, as a church,, strongly — and be gentle with each other, encouraging people to continue in their duty to glorify God and do good — because in this world, people are flawed and the covental structure is debased.

We are facing one of those accursed times which the Chinese would call historical. The dictator of Libya has just been overthrown, which is the second large Arab nation to have a revolution this year (Egypt was the first). The financial craziness of the Euro Bubble is still being sorted out, and the US and UK are walking a tightrope of devaluation (in the hope that they will avoid a nominal de-leveraging of the debt they occurred.

We do not need to look very far to see that the financial mess that we are in is a result of our own stupidity over a series of Generations. And we should not be surprised by this. The lack of honesty and deception that has occurred over the last few years, the love of weath, means that we are in the same situation that Solomon was warned against.

I Kings 9:6-9

⁶“If you turn aside from following me, you or your children, and do not keep my commandments and my statutes that I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, ⁷then I will cut Israel off from the land that I have given them; and the house that I have consecrated for my name I will cast out of my sight; and Israel will become a proverb and a taunt among all peoples. ⁸This house will become a heap of ruins; everyone passing by it will be astonished, and will hiss; and they will say, ‘Why has the LORD done such a thing to this land and to this house?’ ⁹Then they will say, ‘Because they have forsaken the LORD their God, who brought their ancestors out of the land of Egypt, and embraced other gods, worshiping them and serving them; therefore the LORD has brought this disaster upon them.’”

God does not change. If he promised this to Israel if they abandoned him we should not expect anything else. We should not prenetn that our nation is any more specail than any other.

Nassin Taleb, in the Black Swan, talks about the silent witness of history. For very Rome that survived disaster and defeat, there is a Carthage that was razed to the ground. He argues that survival is but a matter of luck, of chance, and not virtue — and we cannot assume that we will continue to do well just because we have done so before.

A person of faith would see it differently. We have survived because it was God’s will. But if we do not give him the glory, and turn to other Gods, the foundations that made us able to survive will disappear, and like the temple of Solomon, we will be left with just ruins.

And… that decline may be happening now. The Chinese curse their enemies, wishing that they live in historic times. It is our duty to bear witness, and to stand, preserve and keep the flame of the West, even thought he elite want to see it — and are succeeding in this — turned from a temple into a toilet.

James, in the previous passage is talking about favouring the rich and powerful. He then points out that this is against the law: it breaks the Golden Rule.

James 2:8-13

8You do well if you really fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 9But if you show partiality, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11For the one who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery but if you murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

via Daily Lectionary Readings — Devotions and Readings — Mission and Ministry — GAMC.

Now, partiality does not only mean favouring the rich. This is from a comment about the NZ Labour party, and describes the results of favouring people for certain qualities over a decade.

Another factor which can solely be attributed to Clark and her lieutenants was the destruction of any overt, robust, healthy contest of ideas. Instead of debating a cohesive and comprehensive ideology that defined what modern Labour stood for and how it was going to advance and implement that, Clark saw this very necessary conversation as a challenge to her leadership. The notion of left and right-wing factions in the party was done away with.

The Labour Party was broken up into a number of interest groups, in effect powerful lobby groups that chose the lacklustre party list. The interest groups are the women’s division, the gay division, the Pacific Island division, the Maori division – you get the picture.

Power corrupts, and favouritism destroys. One needs to look for the best qualified not the correct split of people. The latter is now endemic in NZ. And it is disengaging the people who know they are of the “wrong sort” — White, Religious, Straight, Working.

We are told to treat our neighbour as ourself. Not shove our neighbour through some ideological filter.

I did a couple of things that were fairly out there when I was a kid. The first is I joined a harrier club, and ran long distances. On reflection, the distances were far too long for my frame — I listened to my body after the fifth stress tracture.

I also got involved in the Navigators… which lead to me rebelling, because I did not consider that christianity could be reduced to a formula. And in this, there was an error.

1 Timothy 4:7b-16

7bTrain yourself in godliness, 8for, while physical training is of some value, godliness is valuable in every way, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. 9The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance. 10For to this end we toil and struggle, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

11These are the things you must insist on and teach. 12Let no one despise your youth, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13Until I arrive, give attention to the public reading of scripture, to exhorting, to teaching. 14Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you through prophecy with the laying on of hands by the council of elders. 15Put these things into practice, devote yourself to them, so that all may see your progress. 16Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.

via Daily Lectionary Readings — Devotions and Readings — Mission and Ministry — GAMC.

There is a meme out there that young men are stupid. This is held, passionately, by old people who are challenged by the young, and the more stupid group of young women, who do not understand that they are assortively mating. Bright young people make huge contributions. Older people should support them. And Navigators is a place where young men can train themselves in Godliness, and as such it has a place. The training is not salvation. The training allows one the discipline to minister — regardless of temptation. So the error was leaving, and neglecting discipline.

For in the end, our habits define us. If you want to be a good musician or sportsman, you practice. If you want to be a scholar, you study. If you want to be righteous, you pray and meditate on the word.

We could just use this passage as a proof text about the need to train up in righteousness and not allow the young to be despised.  But that misses the other part — Timothy could not afford to be stupid. Like most young men, he was not stupid.

And in functional societies, the not stupid are valued. When a culture starts making morons celebrities, it is in the final death spiral.

I hate to say this to any gay friends who visit here, but you have been used as a stalking horse to get liberal ideas into reformed churches. The issues in the Presbyterian Church run deep. There are huge divisions between the liberal and conservative groups. In fact, as a Conservative Presbyterian, I find more commonality with Catholics and Orthodox in practice — even though we fervently disagree on theology. A group of US Presbyterians are looking to reform their church. this is from their open letter.

Homosexual ordination has been the flashpoint of controversy for the last 35 years. Yet, that issue — with endless, contentious “yes” and “no” votes — masks deeper, more important divisions within the PC(USA). Our divisions revolve around differing understandings of Scripture, authority, Christology, the extent of salvation amidst creeping universalism, and a broader set of moral issues. Outside of presbytery meetings, we mostly exist in separate worlds, with opposing sides reading different books and journals, attending different conferences, and supporting different causes. There is no longer common understanding of what is meant by being “Reformed.” Indeed, many sense that the only unity we have left is contained in the property clause and the pension plan; some feel like withholding per capita is a club used against them, while others feel locked into institutional captivity by property. While everyone wearies of battles over ordination, these

battles divert us from a host of issues that affect the way our congregations fail to attract either young believers or those outside the faith. Thus, we age, shrink, and become increasingly irrelevant. Is it time to acknowledge that traditional denominations like the PC(USA) have served in their day but now must be radically transformed?
We need something new, characterized by:
1. A clear, concise theological core to which we subscribe, within classic biblical, Reformed/Evangelical traditions, and     a pledge to live according to those beliefs, regardless of cultural pressures to conform;
2. A commitment to nurture leadership in local congregations, which we believe is a primary expression of the Kingdom of God. We will identify, develop, and train a new generation of leaders – clergy and laity;
3. A passion to share in the larger mission of the people of God around the world, especially among the least, the lost, and the left behind;
4. A dream of multiplying healthy, missional communities throughout North America;
5. A pattern of fellowship reflecting the realities of our scattered life and joint mission, with regular gatherings locally, regionally, and nationally to excite our ability to dream together.
Our values include:
1. A minimalist structure, replacing bureaucracy and most rules with relational networks of common purpose;
2. Property and assets under stewardship of the local Session. Dues/Gifts for common administration should only  allow and enable continued affiliation among these congregations;
3. Rather than large institutions, joint ventures with specialized ministries as congregations deem helpful [PC(USA)   World Mission may be a source of joint support, aspects of the Board of Pensions, Presbyterian Foundation,  Presbyterian Global Fellowship, Presbyterians for Renewal conferences, Outreach Foundation, etc.];
4. An atmosphere of support for congregations both within and outside of the PC(USA).

The old Book of Order was simple. Elders had to either be single and living celibately, or married. If you were widowed or divorced, you had to be celibate unless you married.  The new book of order removes the requirement for celibacy from elders (and ministers, who are teaching elders). This is clearly wrong.

But… the reformers start by talking about the deeper split, and look at a reform based on returning to more basic, local and complementarian principles. In this, they are to be congratulated. We let the leaven of liberalism in a generation ago. We now need to clean it. up.

There are some contradictions here. Firstly the disciples were armed… well at least one of them was. Secondly, Jesus did not resist — perhaps this allowed the disciples to flee, because if they had fought — worse would have happened.

Thirdly, the disciples DID flee. Though armed, and swearing they would protect Jesus, he was left alone.

MARK 14:43-52

43Immediately, while he was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, arrived; and with him there was a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders. 44Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “The one I will kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.” 45So when he came, he went up to him at once and said, “Rabbi!” and kissed him. 46Then they laid hands on him and arrested him. 47But one of those who stood near drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 48Then Jesus said to them, “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest me as though I were a bandit? 49Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not arrest me. But let the scriptures be fulfilled.” 50All of them deserted him and fled.

51A certain young man was following him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth. They caught hold of him, 52but he left the linen cloth and ran off naked.

via Daily Lectionary Readings — Devotions and Readings — Mission and Ministry — GAMC.

We should expect the state to use force to project its values and goals onto both the subjects of the state and the enemies of the state. At times our witness will make us enemies of the state. What should we then do?

• Should we resist and participate in armed struggle? Cromwell did (and won). Bonhoeffer did (and Lost).
• Should we obey the state? It is clear that we should not obey the state at all times — even though this moral duty to oppose the evil of the state may lead to us suffering or even dying. On legitimate grounds, or even oppressive grounds, there is no question — but the level at which passive resistance is justified is a very difficult question.
• Should we disassociate from the state? This is the position the Anabaptists take. Their quest for purity in the church is a frank denial of the evil in all of us, and the (inevitable) flaws in all church structure and doctrine. We are human, evil, and only through the holy spirit can we approach truth.

Alte, in the spirit of recycling, decided to repost her comments on old people and how they are clogging up the US system. In the original post, she started using one of my comments as an example. Well, I’m doing the same thing now.

In New Zealand, the demographic structure means that all politicans spend a fair amount of time courting older people.. They vote. And they are about 20% of the population, and growing. We have a later baby boom than the US: the peak year of births was 1961 (and I think the boom extended into the 70s in parts of europe).

When she first posted this, I was annoyed. I don’t see myself as a boomer. I was in short shorts (prmary) when woodstock occured. The musical and cultural event of my teenage yoars was the punk revolution.

And my kids range from 24 to 13. So I’m in the situation at one end of people a little older than me — I’m a farily young grandfather, and younger than me — most of my peers are through the teenage period. But this time around the main comment is that old in Greek times included feeble. I’d still be expected, at 50, to take my place in the shield wall in ancient times.

So I commented ton solutions.

I was waiting for you to recycle this one… since you quoted me. Well, if you live not that much longer, you will get to my age. And it sucks. You take longer to heal. you have to continually work on your fitness, and you have been hit with the ugly stick. Inside your head you are middle aged. But to lovely youngsters like the editors you look like an old fart.So solutions:

1. Retirement age up. To 75. Yes, I’m serious. My parents are still working, and Dad’s 78.

2. You underestimate the effects of other poverty making experiences, like getting involved in the family courts.

3. Resurrect the apprenticeship system. The US stole its higher education model from Bismark’s Prussia. They can now do most young men a favour by STOPPING HIGH SCHOOL AT SIXTEEN and resurrecting guilds. The old bastards like me should have a couple of aprrentices digging the proverbial ditches why we solve the difficult technical problems.

4. In High tech, where young matters for coding the old farts job is to keep the suits away from the programmers…

And… number five!If you accept money from the gog’t you can’t vote. If you yourself, not as a couple pay taxes, you can. restrict voting to those who make a contriubution to the common wealth

via Old People Suck « Traditional Christianity.

It will be interesting to see if the TC site gets as many comments as it did last time.

It appears that Alison Morelli has made her children’s life a living hell. Her husband is the main writer at the PsychoExWive (PEW) — which has been at times a sanity saver. If you look at the link, you will find the transcript of the court case… which speaks volumes.

The site did not mention names. Alison’s kids were not mentioned. Until she took it tou court, ant National TV

Custody Order Violates First & Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution

In a Family Courtroom in Bucks County, PA, Judge Diane E. Gibbons recently ordered a father to take down a website, a blog actually, called: ThePsychoExWife.com. A portion of this site is dedicated to telling a story, based on true events, regarding a very contentious divorce and custody battle with this ex-wife. The purpose of the website was to attract others going through similarly difficult divorce and custody situations in order to help them manage theirs better. The Father, in this case, was ordered to shut it down under threat of incarceration and/or risk losing custody of his children.

Judge Diane E. Gibbons has violated the father’s civil rights by ordering him to remove the blog. Fact is, he neither owns the website nor the content. The existence of the website, in and of itself, has no affect on his children. It would forever remain so, provided both parents monitor the children’s computer usage as any good parent should.

via Save ThePsychoExWife.com.

According to Ferd, The owner of PEW  is facing losing custody of his children to an idiot who blames her drinking on a gastric bypass and alcoholic transference. Woman has too much therapy. And no wisdom.

I advise my boys to avoid American women (they visit here). The NZ family court can at times be capricious. The US courts range from good to basically evil.