I am not Catholic. I am reformed. We have a reputation of being cold, intellectual, and living in places that have winters — from Geneva to Dunedin. I should not have a dog in the fight between Trump and the Pope: but I was driving today and the radio continually says that “The Pope says that Trump is not Christian”.
Now, I could reverse the question. No one knows who is of Christ and who is not. We do not know who is of the elect. God chooses, and his choice is irresistible: indeed we were chosen for his purposes from before creation. I told you I am a Calvinist. I do know that the Pope is a Jesuit, but I do not know if the if the Pope is Catholic, or saved by Christ, that is a Christian.
Similarly, I know that Trump belongs to a Presbyterian Church, but I do not know the state of his soul.
What I do know is that Pastors need to be discreet. They know more than I do — and I know much I cannot speak of. This was not discreet: I have read the transcript (in English) and Francis should have seen the setup and how it would be twisted.
“Phil Pullella, Reuters: Today, you spoke very eloquently about the problems of immigration. On the other side of the border, there is a very tough electoral battle. One of the candidates for the White House, Republican Donald Trump, in an interview recently said that you are a political man and he even said that you are a pawn, an instrument of the Mexican government for migration politics. Trump said that if he’s elected, he wants to build 2,500 kilometers of wall along the border. He wants to deport 11 million illegal immigrants, separating families, etcetera. I would like to ask you, what do you think of these accusations against you and if a North American Catholic can vote for a person like this?
Pope Francis: Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as ‘animal politicus.’ At least I am a human person. As to whether I am a pawn, well, maybe, I don’t know. I’ll leave that up to your judgment and that of the people. And then, a person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not in the Gospel. As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt.”
Vox thinks this will feed into Trumps hands in the South: the antipapist tendency still exists deep in the soul of the Anglican and the splinters that came from that faith. He is correct. But let us look elsewhere for more interesting comments. A Papist voices. Brother Mundabor, who is Italian.
I do not know any Italian who does not consider an open show of emotions endearing. Foreigners love it when they see an emotional Southerner. It reminds them of all the fire and passion they do not have.
I should, therefore, not cast any stone on Pope Stupid.
Why, then, do I do it?
Because once again, this man appears to be a first-class hypocrite.
Why starting to discuss with the man in that manner, when he knows he has a camera just inches from him? And why this astonishing judgmentalism of calling a man “selfish”? How does he know? Does he know his heart? Has he measured the man’s conscience?
Who. Is.He.To.Judge?
The gentle, un-judgmental Pope should have amiably rebuked the man with a friendly tut-tut and a smile, and shrugged the episode from his holy self with a suave gesture of loving forgiveness. He should have shown to the entire planet that he is a kind, old, clearly overweight uncle unable to do anything so out of line as… being angry at a faithful Catholic for a small excess of zeal.
Shall I remind you that poor Padre Pio risked to be literally torn apart by the adoring masses who absolutely wanted to touch him, and put in danger by all the idiots who approached him with knives and scissors to manage to take a way a piece of his habit? If Francis gets so angry for one episode, what should the old (and truly saintly) man have done, nuke the mob?
The truth of the matter is this: Francis is a first-class hypocrite extremely able to criticise everything and everyone as he proposes himself as the idol of non-judgmentalism.
Live by populist crap, die by populist crap.
And Father Z, who has a better idea: feed not the media. They will be too lazy to read Latin. And, suppress the heretics.
Again, when I am elected Pope, We shall take the name of Pius X-II (“Pius Decimus Secondus” – or maybe “Clement Ganganelli”), We shall not give interviews or press conferences. We shall forbid the Lord Cardinals from speaking to the press without permission. We shall disappear into the Apostolic Palace for lengths of time so long that the press will begin to speculate that We may have died. Our encyclicals will be limited to five pages in Latin. And Our first act as Supreme Pontiff will be to suppress the Jesuits.
Yes, I like Father Z, and pray that he never has to deal with the cesspit which is the Curia. For the state of his health, if not his soul.
But anyone who would get rid of the Jesuits would not only get my vote, but that of the Joyce. At least Trump knows what the Battle of Maldon was and to give a bridge to your enemy is ofermoden: hubris.
People who want to build walls are not Christian…
https://mansizedtarget.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/walls-and-christianity/
D’Oh!
Heh. Post edit coming up
Trump is every bit the Christian that Clinton and Obama are.
We are all fallen. Trump may admit that. Clinton may admit that (Bill). Not sure if Mr Obama or Mrs Clinton would admit they put their pants on one leg at a time.
I wouldn’t pick a bone with Trump if he were a private person. Since he’s decided to wave the Bible *in order to gain votes*, I feel that inspecting his life for the fruit of the Spirit is proper.
He (and the rest of them) are still breathing, so they are capable of being redeemed, or their process of sanctification could just be in the very early stages. They’re only fair game since they’re claiming Christ for political purposes – which in the US, is incredibly common. I hurt at the way the conservative religious voters (myself included) are manipulated by these claims. Because not being Christian is political suicide, people blaspheme the Name of Christ by taking it without taking Him.
Again, private person – I agree with you. Take on the name of Christ in order to assert your ability to rule? Expect inspection. All politicals should be inspected with a gimlet eye, and trust is earned.
It is one of those things that differ between NZ, Canada and Australia and the USA.
Most of our politicians are secular to actively athiest. Current PM of NZ is a secular Jew: the Aussies had a fervent Catholic as PM (Abbott) but dumped him for a secular member of the elite (Turnbull). And what I think of Trudeau is unrepeatable.
So it is one of those things I simply don’t think about.
I don’t think it is good for people to question other’s salvation, either. I’d hate to say no (blank) are saved and find myself wrong when standing in front of our Lord.
Our generation is fallen. Calvin taught that the Pope was an antichrist, and against the faith. I’d argue that some Popes were not antichrists. I’m reserving judgment on Francis. And Trump. Not my place.
The Mexican elites must be quite pleased at the way they were able to use the Pope’s visit for their politics. I wonder if he had anything to say about the growing Mexican cult of “Santa Muerte”? Seems to me that should be at least as important as ordering the US to furhter open its border…
Suppress the Jesuits? Wouldn’t be the first time. Or the 3rd time…
HTML fixed for you. And the Jesuits need weeding in every generation. Their tendency to mimic the elite, including their vices, has meant that they find themselves accountable if a church has discipline. The question as to if the Romans do have discipline remains: I note they have defrocked heretics in the last few years. Not sure if Francis has…
From what I know of the great revival movements and people like Spurgeon the masses came to hear the protestant Christians preach the Gospel. Some of these great men were not even good orators but the message was the thing. With the Pope the masses come to see the man because they think he’s God’s anointed and he can bestow blessings like St Paul or Christ himself. The difference is profound and RC doctrine remains appalling in many ways because of this great mistake of adding to the Gospel and reducing Christ to less than He was. This error probably became fully developed in 1564 when Pius IV added his 12 novel (and erroneous) articles to the Nicene Creed.
Passing judgement is not our place in respect of individual salvation but St Paul repeatedly warns us to look at doctrine and to be very wary of error. The Anglicans have being fighting an internal battle for many, many years over sliding back into the RC fold in respect of belief and doctrine – the Oxford Movement. In my view its a battle worth fighting.
I know many RC’s who could clearly be labelled Christian but suspect they don’t know enough about fundamental Christianity to question RC doctrine. I guess that’s a common enough problem in churches generally and reflects the quality of teaching we get.
Leading so many into error, as Popes continue to do, must be a very dangerous game.
“Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.” Catholic Catechism, 2241.